Another divide in opinion about the removal of a statue. However, the argument that the person was aligning to values of the past and should not be judged by today’s standards is facile for two reasons.
One, the statue is in the here and now and the celebration is symbolised by it remaining in place. It may have served a purpose in the past but not now.
Two, to assume that everyone thought in the same way back then is as ridiculous as assuming everyone thinks the same now.
As former history teacher Joanne Oldale and others have pointed out:
‘Historical investigation shows us that Baden Powell sanctioned the massacre of thousands of African women, children and non combatants. And that’s in addition to him repeatedly applauding Hitler’s book Mein Kampf as ‘a great read full of useful ideas’.
With a massive thank you to my friend Emma Lang, a fellow Poole resident, for the following history lesson on local ‘hero’ Baden Powell:
‘This man was responsible for atrocities against the Zulu’s, stole beads from a dead Zulu woman’s body but claimed they were beads from the Zulu king, illegally executed a prisoner of war, allowed the massacre of women, children and non-combatants, supported fascism, supported Hitler (with his diary stating he read Mein Kampf and it is a wonderful book, with good ideas on education, health, propaganda, organisation etc), said his favourite sport in the world was “man-hunting”, made racist comments throughout his travel books and proudly told people that his name given to him by the Matabele people was “The Wolf That Never Sleeps”, despite the word meaning “Hyena”, which is an abusive and insulting word in their culture.
He commandeered all the food for the white population to save the garrison, leaving African’s starving in the town unless they left, which resulted in over 1,000 people dying, with many of those being women and children. Many African’s were also shot or flogged if they were caught stealing food during the siege, all whilst Caviar was being served in the hotel.
Baden Powell was a racist, war-monger and Nazi sympathiser and this should not be excused simply because of his creation of the Scout Movement (let’s not even get onto the fact he stole many of the Scout Movement ideas from his “friend” Seton with no credit)
It seemed that campaigners from across BCP had achieved their goal. An early press release today said that the statue was being taken down pending further discussions about its suitability. However, now the Deputy Leader has issued a further statement saying that the statue is only being removed temporarily on the advice of police. The statue will only be removed permanently if ‘extremely strong grounds’ are established. The fact that this man supported fascism and was prepared to see people starve to achieve his military goals doesn’t count as extreme? This isn’t ancient history. It’s several generations away. This stinks of white privilege.
Saying that, I am so pleased that we are finally shining a light on our colonial past. The Colston topplers have prompted people to question the history books and challenge the current orthodoxy. As a former History teacher, I believe that’s something to be celebrated.’
He was also rabidly homophobic and in an age when many want people to accept each other for their own identities many of the statues of the past were erected by and a celebration of people the 21st century should consign to the bin of history.
It is essential that we learn from the past but where it is malignant we do not ever celebrate it. Otherwise we are doomed to be stuck on repeat.
History needs to be COMPLETELY rewritten, once we have all the racists and fascists torn down!
Don’t forget to add Gandhi next on the list right after Baden! https://ipatc.joburg/90-gandhi-as-heir-of-rhodes-a-reassessment-of-the-mahatma-as-an-afro-asian-prophet/
George Floyd was a violent criminal.
No one has ever disputed this. What’s your point?
No it’s history few historical figures are without some skeletons in the closet…. Where do we stop?…. There’s a statue in London to one of the founders of the suffragette movement…. Turns out she was involved in the concentration camps in South Africa…. Karl Marx founded communism which has led to the deaths and misery of over 80 million people worldwide ..Gandhi has a less than slavery past and even Mandela was s convicted terrorist . It’s British history..
. With all its warts it doesn’t speak about where we were one hundred or two hundred years ago…. it speaks of what made us the people that we are today without hiding anything…. It’s all there out in the open ….. Back in1930s in Germany they burned books to suit a political narrative… This sounds the same thing.. Destroy anything we don’t like…. Well everyone has something they don’t like… This way lays chaos .. and in case you forgot this is actually Britain
We don’t stop! We keep going until the real facts of history are exposed not the elite class’ glorifications taught in schools. The Facts, the True Facts! War fair between tribes and nations have happened for the entire human existence perhaps if we teach the truth about these warmongers and blood hungry murderers and how our elite class obtained their wealth by War Mongering, Greedy Land Grabs, Plundering, Piracy, Genocide, Murder, Theft/Robbery, etc, etc and the truth about the glorified dead, perhaps then we will move closer to a peaceful world! We have plenty enough great Artists, Authors, Poets Architects without a murderous, racist past to take their places on those plinths.
Here’s another one that needs to go then….
This great statue depicting Shaka Zulu is located at Camden Market in London. Shaka Zulu’s tribal wars caused over 1 million African deaths. Like many African leaders he was also seriously involved in slave trafficking. The slave trade existed in Africa long before the white man came along and would certainly have continued without the white man’s existence.
Shake Zulu, like all indigenous African tribal sovereigns, was the initial supplier in the main part of the world wide supply chain.
If anti-racist activists exclude African leaders from their list of statues to be pulled down, wouldn’t that be . . . . errr, racist?
You understand what racism means – right?
Independent Citizen Media….someone’s ranty, partisan blog in other words. Clowns.
There appears to be nobody named as the author of the above article and no proof provided of the accusations against Baden Powell.
Some website such as this one and Topple the Racists said he committed “atrocities against the Zulus in his military career”, however, some historians have argued the allegations are either unfair or entirely unfounded. But many on the left would say he is guilty until proven innocent. Read https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-53007902 to get a different view.
This article states that we should judge historical figures by todays standards. What Baden Powell has achieved today is a global movement with no other philosophy than equality. Scouting allows people from every different backgrounds to mix and form friendships. There has never been and never will be a greater force for integration between people of different creeds than scouting. His statue should be on Parliament Square.
Actions are far more important than words. What he leaves behind is far more important that what he might have said at one point.
The article leaves out 2 key episodes in Baden-Powell’s history that deserve closer scrutiny – his execution of a prisoner of war in the Second Matabele War (1896), and his active involvement in child sexual abuse.
Baden-Powell was a reconnaissance commander in Matabeleland, where he plaid a critical role in destroying Matabele resistance to British colonial rule, and where many of his ideas about scouting were formed. When the resistance leader, Chief Uwini, surrendered as a prisoner of war, Baden-Powell countermanded orders from his superior that Uwini should be tried in a civilian court. Instead, he ordered that Uwini should be executed without trial. He did so to set an example to Uwini’s fellow resistance fighters. In his own words, “ At sunset all the natives in the camp… were paraded to witness the execution of Uwini….I have great hopes that the moral effect of this will be particularly good among the rebels … No doubt, when they have realised that he is after all mortal, that he has succumbed to our power, and that they have no other head to take his place, they won’t take long to surrender.” Baden-Powell’s biographer, Tim Jeal, notes a possible additional, personal motive for his action – Baden-Powell had already developed a disturbing obsession with executions by firing squad, describing them in lurid detail in his writings.
Another of Baden-Powell’s obsessions was naked boys. He spent hours scrutinising them bathing at early scout camps at Gilwell Park in the Epping Forest, and took great pleasure in consuming pornographic photos of young schoolboys provided by a housemaster at his old boarding school, Charterhouse. And later, when scoutmasters were discovered sexually abusing young children in their care, Baden-Powell as Chief Scout routinely made sure that the police were not involved.